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Chained Creations

Chained Creations

Card text

Chained Creations

Ready Spell - Spellboard

  1. [[main]]
  2. [[side]]
  3. 1 [[illusion:class]]
  4. 1 [[divine:class]]

  1. When an ally is placed into your hand from your discard pile or from your battlefield, you may discard this card. If you do, remove a target conjuration from the game.
  2. Respark: 1 [[basic]] or 1 [[discard]]

Comments

  • It is worth noting that "you may discard this card" is an effect, not a cost, because it differs from the defined discard type of cost in the rulebook. This means that if the effects of chained creations are cancelled, you do not discard the card.

  • It is worth noting that "you may discard this card" is an effect, not a cost

    This is a tricky one. On the one hand, the FAQ states:

    FAQ p. 18, under "Costs"
    All costs must be one of the five costs listed in the rule book, namely, Exhaust, Main Action, Side Action, Discard, or Magic; or be accompanied by the phrase “As an additional cost.” A cost may include any or all of these costs, and nothing else is considered to be a cost.

    However, this is a triggered spell (FAQ p. 18: "A spell that may be used when a game event happens that is indicated in the body of the text of card"), and the way it's text is phrased means that discarding a card is a cost:

    FAQ p. 18, under "Costs"
    The cost for triggered abilities or spells is found in the body of the text preceding the word “to” or preceding a sentence that begins with “If you do...” or “For each__ spent...”. For costs found in the body of the text the cost may appear as an icon or may be written out (e.g. 1 [[exhaust]], or “place 1 exhaustion token”).

    I'm honestly not sure how this should resolve per RAW.

  • Adam Tarr and I had an extended conversation about this on Slack a few days ago. My post above was our conclusion from that conversation. (I don't know how to link to slack conversations here).

    I believe your statement here is incorrect: "and the way it's text is phrased means that discarding a card is a cost". Certainly, it is true that we are discussing a triggered spell and, thus, were there a cost for what is triggered, then the cost would be found preceding the word to.

    However, nothing requires triggered spells or abilities to have costs. In fact, the FAQ makes it rather clear that some triggered spells and abilities do not have costs, but simply follow from triggering game events without there being any costs. See, for instance, the example of squire in the faq (here: https://www.plaidhatgames.com/images/games/ashes/faq3.pdf), which has the exact same sentence construction as chained creations, but for which the FAQ explains that the text preceding to is not a cost ("Squire Assist 1: The game event of changing 1 die in your active pool to its basic side is not a cost, but it must be resolved in order to draw 1 card.")

    Thus, it is clear that triggered spells and abilities do not necessarily have costs for those triggered effects.

    But does chained creation's triggered effect have a cost? Now we return to the clear language in the rulebook that "All costs must be one of the five costs listed". None of these five types of listed costs are on the text for chained creation's triggered effect. Again, the discard on the text of chained creations differs from the listed discard cost type in the rulebook.

    So, in sum, triggered spells and abilities do not necessarily have costs for their triggered effects. Instead, they only have costs if one of the listed types of costs in the rulebook is on the text of the card. This is not the case for Chained Creations, and thus the triggered effect on the text of chained creations does not have a cost. (By contrast, chained creations does clearly have a play cost which is on the upper right corner of the card.)

  • [...] Instead, they only have costs if one of the listed types of costs in the rulebook is on the text of the card. This is not the case for Chained Creations, and thus the triggered effect on the text of chained creations does not have a cost.

    I agree.
    We also had a (quite small) thread about this months ago that came to the same conclusion :
    https://ashes.live/posts/30/

  • Nice, the Squire example is a good one. Looks like here's yet another instance where formatting things like a cost doesn't actually make them a cost. sigh

  • Yeah, how these rules apply to chained creations is counterintuitive. I was rather confused before discussing this on Slack, which is why I thought I should post the conclusion from our discussion there above, so as to clarify for others who might similarly be confused. Thanks!